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Is it selfish to die in a tornado?
Stacey Friedenthal, one of my favourite on-line therapist blogger has just written a blog entry with that title.  Very well written and well worth the read.
We live by each other and for each other. Alone we can do so little. Together we can do so much.
-- Helen Keller
(10-28-2015, 11:49 PM)Dragon Wrote: Stacey Friedenthal, one of my favourite on-line therapist blogger has just written a blog entry with that title.  Very well written and well worth the read.

Thank you for sharing this. I wish everyone in my life would read it.
My name is Trouble
My first name's A Mess
No need to greet me
I'm here to confess

- Keren Ann
My comment to Stacey and her reply:
Stacey Freedenthal, PhD, LCSW commented on Is It Selfish to Die in a Tornado?.

The Dragon: Wrote:A very excellent article, Stacey. I could reiterate so much of what it says, but why rewrite it? Thank you for the thought that went into this.
Stacey Friedenthal Wrote:Thank you for the feedback! I appreciate it.

The post was actually inspired by a column I read this week where the author called out a woman who died by suicide for being “selfish.” The woman, Patti Stevens, had been married 25 years. Two weeks earlier, her husband was murdered by a stranger with a machete. Patti Stevens killed herself in the throes of grief, despair, and trauma. And the columnist called her selfish!!

The headline of the column was, “Patti Stevens’ tragedy was unspeakable, but her suicide was still selfish.”

Can you imagine?

The column that Stacey refers to can be found here. The column is disgusting - the comments to it, which are still coming in strong are not. Most seem to actually understand Patty's actions but not the column.
We live by each other and for each other. Alone we can do so little. Together we can do so much.
-- Helen Keller
Dear Dragon,

     Thank you so much for the link to your friend, Stacey's article.  I'm definitely going to be sharing the link.  

    I'm pretty sure the whole idea of suicide being selfish originates from the school of warped and misguided thought that tries to stop suicidal people from being so by using guilt, shame, humiliation and threats - religious or otherwise (as if we don't have enough of this already!).  I see this repeated all the time when I'm feeling mentally strong and social enough to face the incredible number of suicidal posts on Reddit's SuicideWatch sub., or visit my old stomping grounds at the Google Groups, Alt.Suicide.Methods or Alt.Suicide.Hangout where I try to help and offer what little support and commiseration I can to others who are in hell, suffering terribly, and too often in the midst of facing down their deaths for the first time (there are so many young kids these days, such horrible stories of abuse, bullying, toxic households, hideous parents and then there was the cancer stricken 78 year old man being foreclosed on in the freezing cold of winter, that I corresponded with for three months and who was able to make his final exit a week before they could take his house away and make him homeless.)  I try to encourage them to come here where there are no trolls or do-gooders who think they are helping someone who is utterly terrified, at the end of their rope and asking for help, by telling them they are selfish, spineless, and will destroy the lives of those they love forever (which as we know only causes more horrible emotional damage and intensifies their distress - the very last thing these poor people need dumped on them).  

    But, in my case I do have a bit of a problem with the following sentiments though they may be true for most others:
Quote:"Sometimes, the difference between a suicide victim and a suicide survivor can be just one thing, like finding a good therapist, starting a medication that works, or simply waking up one morning and inexplicably feeling better. Something else might make the difference between living and dying, something unknowable."

  ... Or sometimes it's just that the human body is utterly obstinate in its ability to survive or be revived.

   We were brought into this world without the choice of our own free will, and I think when we reach adulthood we
 should have the right of what might be termed a very late term abortion, though instigated by the former fetus instead of the mother ( Evil Ha!).  I believe, whether the tornado is chronic suicidality, mental illness, untreatable chronic pain, being bedridden, being paralyzed, having or being diagnosed with MS, ALS, Alzheimer's, being terminally ill, etcetera, etcetera, etcetera; they should all be allowed the right to die if they sincerely want to, and family and friends should be educated and encouraged to be empathetic and understand that life for their suffering loved one is not "a precious gift to be lived at all costs" (I am so sick of this kind of optimistic, trite doggerel that has no actual basis in the facts of life, unless you are looking at Hallmark Cards).  I always have huge arguments about this with all my therapists and psychiatrists.  I argue that their overvaluation of, and esteem for, the supposed sanctity of human life simply comes from the calcified biases and stigmas of the Judeo/Christian/Islamic cultural prejudices that have been passed down for hundreds of years to our present society.  I remind them that just because everyone believes something, it does not make it true.  So, I argue that their belief that life must be lived at all costs, under all circumstances, is a purely subjective opinion based on cultural bias, and thus has absolutely no basis in the actual facts.  Why is it that we allow the mercy and peace of death for the pain and suffering of other animals; yet refuse it to our own species?  I tell them that the idea that my life has any more importance than the life of a virus or a spider is ridiculous.   Of course it always ends with the inevitable philosophical stalemate when I say (very sarcastically) that maybe I'm wrong, and maybe they just believe this garbage about life because they would lose an awful lot of money and possibly their careers, if those of us who wanted to die were allowed to!  And, then I festoon that high note with some quotes to prove how smart I am:
Quote:"It's hard to get a man to understand something if his paycheck depends upon him not understanding it."
- Upton Sinclair

"Entrenched belief is never altered by the facts."
- Leo Haynes

"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident." - Arthur Schopenhauer
(But, since I'm the one in the hospital gown, apparently that makes everything I say simply the misguided rantings of a blithering madwoman. Angry

  Yet, suicidal ideation & completed suicides run like a black streak through every known generation of my mother's family.  Is it any wonder that no treatments, drugs, hospitalizations or therapies have helped me or changed my mind?  (My skeptical, scientifically bent mind seems to eliminate any chance that I might benefit from the blessing of the placebo effect which is 80% as effective as most psychotropic drugs but without all the horrible side effects.)  The only reason I've held off on catching that beautiful bus lately is that I'm in a relationship that I did not expect or desire to be in (damn hormones!) and this time My Beloved did not die within the first four years of our partnership.  I have always believed that until a relationship ends, I have no right to inflict the horrible consequences of my suicide upon My Beloved (not that I've been so great at keeping my word.  And, I do often resent him for making me promise to live for him).   But, I just don't see how anything short of changing the make-up of my genetic material will end a lifetime of wishing for and trying to reach my death. And, especially now when I'm disabled and laid up most days because of chronic pain.  Things haven't exactly improved over time, and I suppose that is why elder suicide is so high and still climbing.  And, why I keep smoking!

  [My inner voice just screamed, "Shut up!"  Gloomy , and you know what they say about listening to your inner voice.]


   Anyhoo, thanks to you dear Dragon (and Stacey)!  Now, I have this wonderful article to forward to those I love as it eloquently explains some of the thoughts that have clotted haphazardly in my brain in a much better fashion than I could have. (You have my apologies for going off topic.)

Peace & Love

          (I miss Marcus!)
"You didn't save my life, you ruined my death!" - The Incredibles
I saw the article before I saw your post here, Dragon. I wondered if you were "The Dragon" who had replied.

I loved this article, but I still think people who die in tornadoes are terribly selfish Smile
“Sometimes even to live is an act of courage.” ~ Seneca
Hey BlackCat, I've been on Stacey's blog list for a couple of years now. She doesn't write too often and I normally appreciate what she has to say. Like all of us, she'd like to see things come out all right for everyone - but she's realistic enough to realize that that doesn't always happen.

I especially like that her words of wisdom aren't of the "Get over it!" variety, more often they're "I understand, maybe this will help!" She doesn't have any magic answers, just enough experience that she can try to help.
We live by each other and for each other. Alone we can do so little. Together we can do so much.
-- Helen Keller
Dear Fellow Sufferers,

    Please forgive my snotty little, asshole, suicidal diatribe above.

   Thanks again for the article, Dragon (I am actually in agreement with Staceys wisdom).  And, I just don't go around sharing articles every other decade, but this one was the exception.   Learning new ways to express ourselves and make ourselves understood is always welcome.

    I'm sorry, I can be a total ass, but my mother always said I was born a bitter old woman - an excruciatingly shy, unsociable, solitary, parsimonous thing that came home from the first day of kindergarten asking who these weird alien babies were (i.e. my classmates).  (Woops, slipping into third person speak, not good!)

      I'll just shut up now. Brick_Head

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