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Circumcision - its effects
With no_escapes permission I've moved this out of another thread to a thread of its own. 

Sounds awful. I was thinking about making a thread about circumcision. About two years ago I learned what it was and started researching obsessively (since I am circumcised, why did no one tell me what was done)? I've found a lot of interesting links about the possible psychological effects of it. There's no doubt it is extremely traumatic. I've tried watching videos of the procedure and it is unbearable to hear the screams of pain from the child, who is strapped down by his wrists and ankles to keep from struggling. I think it's very possible that it can cause PTSD. Here's all the links I've bookmarked about the psychology of it:

A man who's suffered nightmares all his life, attributes it to his circumcision. It sounds kind of similar to what you describe:

Also a Grief section of a message board for men who are trying to restore their foreskins:

We live by each other and for each other. Alone we can do so little. Together we can do so much.
-- Helen Keller
Thanks guy, I've read a few of these, some before and a couple now.
It's amazing what the effects of early life trauma can be and as they're finding out now we can "remember" that trauma.
His references in this post are sometimes to my original post in ""
We live by each other and for each other. Alone we can do so little. Together we can do so much.
-- Helen Keller
What? No anesthesia?
"I want to thrive, not just survive." - Thrive, Switchfoot
(08-03-2012, 10:32 PM)nightsong link Wrote: Sadly, nowadays even if there is anesthesia they don't wait for it to be fully in effect before performing the surgery.  :-(

o_O that's bizarre!
"I want to thrive, not just survive." - Thrive, Switchfoot
(08-03-2012, 09:24 PM)Lurker.In.The.Night link Wrote: What? No anesthesia?
No, because it was thought that the nerve endings in a postnatal child weren't developed enough to feel pain,  My question of that is "If he doesn't feel any pain, then why is he screaming his bloody head off"
We live by each other and for each other. Alone we can do so little. Together we can do so much.
-- Helen Keller
(08-04-2012, 09:35 AM)Dragon link Wrote: \"If he doesn't feel any pain, then why is he screaming his bloody head off\"
Valid question.  :nja:
"I want to thrive, not just survive." - Thrive, Switchfoot
I'm not even going to watch that video. *shudders*
"I want to thrive, not just survive." - Thrive, Switchfoot
Ignorance plays a major part in acceptance of the social status-quo.  Saying that we didn't know better should be a valid reason for many things.
Blame attaches itself to someone who knows better and goes ahead and does it anyway.  Though, in our society, we are all too often blamed for doing things we didn't know the right or wrong of.  Hindsight is 20-20.
We live by each other and for each other. Alone we can do so little. Together we can do so much.
-- Helen Keller
Here's a video of an Egyptian man talking about being circumcised at age 10 and how it affected him. He talks a lot about suicidal feelings.

He also translated and wrote out the text of the video since it is long:

Some extracts:

Describing the day he was circumcised
Quote:and one day when i was 10 years old my mother asked me to go out of home with her, when i asked her where we are going she said we are going for a short journey and we will be back home right away, i agreed to go out with my mother because i trust her and i feel safe with her, because i know she wouldn't hurt me and wouldn't expose me to danger for any reason.

we entered a hospital and met our older brother and greeted him and then we sat on waiting chairs for a short period. i asked my mother why are we here but she didn't respond and she said we won't be late we will back home right away, and i knew from my mother that she paid 75 pounds for hospital but i didn't know why she had paid so i kept silent because i didn't feel danger

after a while my mother and brother gone to an employee sitting at office and they talked to him. i didn't understand what they were talking about but i was stunned when the employee
asked me to take off my trousers, i was shocked & refused and kept silent Then i looked at my mother and my brother. i wanted to ask them why that man is asking me to take off my trousers and why you don't protect me from him so as not to hurt me, but they kept silent without a reaction. then the employee suddenly reached out his hands to me and took off my trousers and my underwear by himself to see my genital.

i got more shocked and felt fear and insecurity, then we sat back on the waiting chairs. i begun crying and telling my mother i want to leave this place but both my mother and brother were silent like if i don't talk or crying. after a while a doctor was coming out of an operating room and he told my mother that he is ready

i didn't understand what he was ready for .. i didn't know ..

and my mother grabbed my hands and said to me \"go with the doctor\" and i refused and cried so hard until the doctor grabbed me from my hand and brought me to the operating room and locked the door. that time i started crying severely with tears. i was shocked not knowing what to do.

there were 4 people inside the room, a young doctor and a nurse among them held me
and strapped me down to a bed. there was an elderly doctor on my left and a young doctor and a nurse in front of my legs and another young doctor on my right.

i was crying, screaming and calling my mother but i found the elderly doctor ignoring
my crying and my tears in cold blood and giving me anesthetic injection in the back of my hand. i was still crying.

after taking the injection i felt dizzy and started to lose my consciousness a little, i saw the young doctor and the nurse taking off my trousers and my underwear and spreading my legs. i felt them holding my genitals. i started to stop crying from the impact of anesthesia. i wasn't able to move my limbs at all. i wasn't even able to move my eyes but i felt everything. i felt great pain while they were starting the surgery and cutting off my genitals

i completely lost my consciousness minutes after the surgery started, the moment i lost my consciousness was the worst moment in my whole life, i felt that i had lost everything in my life. i lost safety, confidence in my mother who i was always knowing she would protect me from any danger and harm, and that she would risk her life to protect me. i felt intense rage, intense desire for revenge and i felt helplessness that i can't protect myself. i felt horrible pain, i felt i lost my virginity forever. i lost so much values in my life. i lost the value of loyalty, honesty, trust and love.

moments before i lose my consciousness i prayed to God to make this moment the last moment in my life. i prayed that i don't wake up from the surgery except in my grave.

i lost consciousness and when i woke up few hours later i found myself lying on another bed. my clothes was gone and i was wearing only a Coftan (long full robe). my mother and brother were on my left looking at me. the first word i said after i woke up was \"mama\". i called my mother, i was wishing to ask her :
\"what did i do to hurt you, what did i do to you when i came to life to hurt me and leaving me to those 4 people to rape me, slay me and kill me in cold blood ?\"

why .. why mom ?

but i kept silent because i was in intense shock .. i kept silent and didn't say anything. but i knew from the moment i woke up .. i knew i will never be the same again. i felt like i died and the person who woke up was another person, not me. i felt that Zakareya is dead at the
moment he lost consciousness.

the price of raping and killing me was 75 pounds. since this day everything in my life changed to the worst. my relationship with God worsened because i felt God stopped protecting me the day i was in hospital. i stopped praying and i began to move away from Quran and mosques. i felt lonely and began to be introverted and moving away of people.

at age of 11, i was once praying the afternoon prayer and i prayed to God to let me die. it was the first time in my life to pray to God to let me die. i was feeling unbearable intense pain in my genitals when i was entering the bathroom

Asking a doctor about restoring foreskin and trying to talk to his mother
Quote:when we gone to doctor and asked him, he replied sarcastically and said :
\"so, you want us to remove your thigh skin and stick it onto your penis ?\"

i was shocked by his answer but i expected that because my trust in doctors is not-existent. and i know they will never say the truth. i didn't reply him back, and kept silent. when we left, my mother tried to convince me that doctor is right, like if she proved her point of view and that i do not have a problem and that all what i suffer from is only delusions and psychological illness, and that i got to go to a psychotherapist.

my mother described my pain, injustice, defeating, helplessness to protect myself and sorrow for myself feelings and all physical, sexual and neurological problems which happened to me during the whole past years that it is only delusions .. and psychological illness.

i refused her words, when she saw me crying she said a sentence that shocked me, she said ..
\"you are crying over a piece of skin ? i swear if i knew that i would circumcise you when you were a baby so you won't remember anything\"

i was shocked by her words, it was the second worst moment in my life.
Interesting article that prompted me to go looking around the web for the age of circumcision in Islam.  To my surprise I found there is none! 

While Judaism typically requires that the Bris (circumcision) be performed at around 7 days of age, Islam simply requires <?> that the male be circumcised before puberty, before joining the congregation of Islam. The reference to Judaism, BTW, is appropriate since circumcision derives from the Abrahamic tradition followed in varying degrees by Islam, Christianity and Judaism.

This story, to me is horrific; to take a child who hasn't - apparently - been prepared in any way into a hospital to be circumcised is the ultimate in cruelty. Even in the most remote of the African Islamic tribes, where circumcision is considered the rite of passage from childhood to adulthood the boys are instructed - what will happen, how it will happen and of course the "joyous but painful" passage from child to adult.
We live by each other and for each other. Alone we can do so little. Together we can do so much.
-- Helen Keller

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