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I don't know (II)
#1

I'm not so sure i'm such an atheist anymore. I've never really enjoyed taking part in the 'zomg religion sucks' conversations that often go on here. I don't talk a lot about my own beliefs either, since I know they are subject to change. This is what I'm thinking today:

As far as I or anyone else knows, there is no God. But that doesn't mean there couldn't be. As I said in anoher thread, it is possible that there is a way of discovering or contacting a higher power that is on a scientific level humanity hasn't reached yet (there is such a thing as metaphysical *science*).

I've never had a problem with people who believe in God. I sometimes feel, though, that fundamentalists and religious zealots (or anti-religous zealots) and people who follow their religious writings (or lack of) to a tee and refuse to entertain the notion that what they think may be wrong are the kind of people who are preventing us from reaching that higher level to maybe finding out what really exists.

I just think that whatever is actually going on in life and in death is potentially more amazing than anything we currenly know or believe to be true.
The Universe is expanding<br />But I don't feel a damn thing<br />There's nothing you can do about it <br />Keep on dancing<br /><br />- That Handsome Devil, &quot;Loving Parasite&quot;
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#2
Even in science, there is a thing called the uncertainty principle. There are many things we can't observe, and just because we happen to observe things, repeatedly, doesn't meant it is reality or proof of anything. It only means that the most evidence points in a given direction. Also, in science, we don't take a lack of observable phenomena as proof of absence. For some interesting reading on this, google "Higgs-boson". Also, the laws of physics as we know them currently do not necessarily apply everywhere in the universe(s?) Scientists struggle to this day to create a unifying theory of the forces of nature. Until then, if it makes someone feel better to believe in god, more power.

Personally I delight in not knowing, either way. It makes every idea a new discovery... And gives ever more questions to ask. Still, I have a hunch that this all can't be for naught, by naught. At any rate I don't think people are half as important in the cosmos as much of religion presumes, but at least here on earth, religion I would argue is just as important as science in finding meaning in life, something everyone wants. I think we should all just chill a little as a planet and agree at least on the elegance of the universe.
oh what fun it would be to blow my mind and fall into the sun
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#3
Ps I stalk you eye
oh what fun it would be to blow my mind and fall into the sun
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#4
(04-13-2010, 10:24 AM)ogimyto link Wrote: Ps I stalk you eye

Big Grin
The Universe is expanding<br />But I don't feel a damn thing<br />There's nothing you can do about it <br />Keep on dancing<br /><br />- That Handsome Devil, &quot;Loving Parasite&quot;
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#5
sell me the current socially-acceptable "answers", because i'm easily embarassed when people accuse me of being an idiot
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#6
I grew up believing in the science side of things so I admit that I believe there is no god or afterlife.  I do, however, respect other people's beliefs but I can't stand when some people get on me because of what I believe.  Some people are hypocrits when it comes to religion.
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#7
As a 'non-believer' I think there's a fairly solid correlation between one's tolerance of religion and how much one's been exposed to it. I've had a lot of bad experience with religion and having grown up in a strictly religious household can see the far reaching destructive powers it has. Having had these experiences my support for religion is pretty much at 0, though I try to be tolerant of whatever views people may have. 

I've also noticed lately that science is sort of becoming it's own religion. People seem to be putting their trust in it as if it's some irrefutable belief system whose discoveries - whether proven or not proven - must be followed. Added to that the ridiculous idea that science holds the keys to all the problems in the world and if left to it's own devices would eventualy fix everything. Of course the history of science shows that current thought is most often completely wrong and later disproved and that a lot of scientific innovation has made things worse not better. Not to say Im anti-science by any stretch, just that I start to get a little scared when I hear people talking about it like I've heard people talk about religion.

In my opinion the best thing is a healthy dose of uncertainty, no matter what your beliefs are. But it's unfortunate that uncertainty is a quality disparaged in such a fast paced world.
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#8
I reject religion offhand for a variety of reasons I won't discuss anymore except to say that utterly none of the claims have ever been proven and I doubt they ever will be. Sure, the have been found old scrolls and buried buildings and so forth, but that doesn't mean that they mean anything other than they were found. The simple fact about religion is you have to die to find out if it's real.. I think that really raises the bar for the burden of proof pretty damned high far beyond anything science will ever prove or what anyone else will ever find out as a mere mortal.
Until the burden of proof gets meet then I'll assume it to be not real and since once I die I'm not coming back nobody will ever be able to say "I told you so."
With me it's not a matter of science is great or not because obviously science has done lots of shitty things over the years. That's not the question anyway.
Science can build bombs or cure disease and is used by everyone from the most fundamentalist groups to the most ardent atheists. Some people think all scientists are bad or all atheists or some silliness like that and it has nothing to do with belief systems. Science is a learning process and not a process of wishing or of magic spells like religion often is.
Science works on testing, double testing, blind testing and so on and not by merely wishing or praying it to happen. Until the religious nuts get that through their thick skulls I reject it (religion) completely and undeniably in my way of thinking and I'm under no obligation to prove my thinking because I'm just me..I don't ask anyone to join me or follow me or to give me money for my beliefs or anything of the sort. Religion on the other hand.....does..with utterly no proof whatsoever. NONE! It DEMANDS we follow and believe because they say so. It's THAT simple.
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"The thought of suicide is a powerful solace: by means of it one gets through many a bad night" -- Friedrich Nietzsche
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#9
(04-16-2010, 11:40 AM)unlegendary link Wrote: Until the religious nuts get that through their thick skulls I reject it (religion) completely and undeniably in my way of thinking and I'm under no obligation to prove my thinking because I'm just me..

Many religious people feel the same way about their own beliefs.
Just sayin', I don't think it is THAT simple...
one must imagine Sisyphus happy.
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#10
Quote:I'm not so sure i'm such an atheist anymore. I've never really enjoyed taking part in the 'zomg religion sucks' conversations that often go on here.

Just like religious people come in a variety of flavours, so do atheists. Christians run the gamut from total fundies to those who just go to church on Christmas and Easter only. Muslims the same - some very, VERY strict, some really not. Jews, even more so - I have a few Jewish atheist friends. And atheists too - we can't all be Richard Dawkins, some of us just wander along simply not believing. It's not compulsory to be rabid about your beliefs, whatever they are.
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